Interview with Dyeing Teacher Masaru Hori 3/3

Kawashima Textile School has a history of 47 years since its foundation. Instructor Hirokazu Kondo interviewed skilled dyeing specialist and full-time instructor at the school for over 20 years, Masaru Hori. In the third and last part of this series, he talked about passing on skills, what dyeing means to him, the source of his health, and his thoughts now, being over 80 years old.

Part 1
Part 2

◆ The skills are being passed on

-You have been involved in yarn dyeing for a total of over 62 years, working at Kawashima Textile until retirement, and then teaching at the school.

Actually, about three years before retirement, I was removed from the dyeing room and was transferred to another department. My boss at that time was someone who worked in the same Dyeing Department when I joined the company, and had thought "It is wasteful since he has dyeing skills. It is a loss for the company as well. We should use it somehow." Just then the previous dyeing teacher was leaving, and I was transferred to the school. If I hadn't met that boss, I would have left at retirement age and would not have continued dyeing. That is how I am here now.

-I didn't know something like that happened.

At the time of the transfer, my boss told me, “Just teaching is not good enough. I want you to teach with the intention that you are passing on the skills of Kawashima Textile,” and that has left a lasting impression on me. So when I teach, those words are always in my mind, and I try to keep myself focused, thinking that I cannot teach irresponsibly.

When the school opened (1973), the president of the company had a strong hope to make this school a base for handweaving culture, not only for teaching. Also at that time, the trend of supporting arts and culture by companies was widespread throughout Japan, called Mécénat. Kawashima Textile is also a school that was created with the idea of contributing to society with the culture of textiles and the technique of handweaving. When I came to the school (concurrently taking over from 1996, full-time since 1999) It was a place where everything about handweaving such as engineers, researchers, artists, from designing and disassembling textiles would come together. Did you have designing and disassembling classes, Kondo-sensei?　

-Yes, we did. It was called "Kishoku-ron (weaving theory)," and we disassembled actual fabric and "read" them to make weaving designs, wrote weaving drafts, and researched the density and material. We don't have a disassembling class now, but students study weaving drafts in other classes such as "Kiso Ori (Basic Weaving)" and "Tenbin bata (Countermarch Looms)." Perhaps having these kinds of classes is due to the fact that Kawashima Textile works with restoration of cultural properties.

One of the school's missions is to pass on Kawashima Textile's handweaving skills and textile culture. When the school started, they were recruiting students with a high ideal that people with first-rate skills gather here to teach skills and culture. However, as generations change, the people gradually change. How should we pass these things on as the people change? This school started with engineers from Kawashima Textile, but as the years go by, the graduates become teachers. They were taught by teachers from Kawashima Textiles, so I think those skills are still being passed on.

Practicing his swing before class has been a daily routine for years.

◆ I hope to be of help to everyone, even a little

-You have been working at the school for over 20 years. Where does your motivation to continue come from?

When I first came to school, I was very intentional about the succession of skills, but after I actually started teaching, I didn't really think about it. But I don't want to repeat the same thing for 20 years, so I am gradually changing the content depending on the year. Students continue to come up with new things, and each time I discover something new. Especially students in the second year of the Professional Course make their work with a specific goal in mind, so they come up with things that I can't imagine, and each time I think with them. It's fun because there is a lot of communication, and it doesn't end with just teaching something. So every year, looking forward to what the new students will be like, and what they will make, is a strong motivation.

-A life spent together with dyeing. What does dyeing mean to someone like you?

I think it is a connection with people. I teach about 100 people each year, including students in the professional course and workshops, and I continued doing that for 20 years, so that would be more than 2000 people. There are so many interactions with people. My greatest joy is when the students finish the class and say "Thank you very much" as they return home. The students who come to this school have a passion to learn, so many of them work hard. The greatest happiness is to teach people who want to do it. People often say I am "always smiling" or "gentle," but I'm wondering if my personality naturally became that way because people say thank you to me. That is why I can interact with people, smiling.

-You are also active in golf. What does golf mean to you?

It's a source of health that I have a strong connection with. I can keep my energy and physical strength. The time when I can no longer play golf would be the time I quit my job (laughs). I don't feel any stress working at the school. In a normal workplace, human relationships are complicated and stressful, but here it feels more like a workshop than a workplace. I feel more stress playing golf (laughs). It's a good balance, and that leads to good health. I started playing golf around the time I was 35, and it will be nearly 50 years now. It could be that I am able to play golf because I work, and the joy of playing golf doubles because I work hard.

-Is there anything you want to say to those who want to study at the school?

The difference from other schools is that at the root, there is a hope to pass on the skills and that the students learn from them. That the facilities accompanying that are well equipped. Since we teach based on a deep philosophy, students can learn dyeing and weaving techniques in depth.

That is something I want to tell the people involved in the school now, including the teachers. I want them to keep in their hearts when interacting with the students, the hopes that Kawashima had when they first opened the school. If they do, I think it will gradually come across to the students. It's not just teaching. I want them to feel that.

-In the history of Kawashima Textile School, which is about to reach its 50th anniversary, there are things that have been passed on, such as the philosophy and skills. I felt that once again by hearing it directly from you. I started as a student and am now a full-time instructor here, and feel that what people who come to study at school want to make, have changed as the times have changed. There are some things that we can't do as they were in the old days, but as the fundamental skills, techniques, and attitude towards creating stay the same, I will continue to convey them with care. Thank you very much for your time today.

I wouldn't look back on my work if I didn't have the opportunity to do an interview like this. I was able to reflect on it again. Thank you very much.

There is one last thing I want to say. Now, I hope to be of help to everyone, even a little, rather than doing my best. It is relevant to the philosophy of the school when it was established, and the social contribution of the company. That is how I feel now at over 80 years old.

An Interview with Dyeing Teacher Masaru Hori 2/3

This is part 2 of the interview with skilled dyeing specialist and full-time instructor at Kawashima Textile School, Masaru Hori. We talked about subjects such as what is important to him when teaching dyeing, and about being called a magician of dyeing. The interviewer is instructor Hirokazu Kondo.

(Continued from part 1)



◆ Teaching so that students can dye at home

-I always feel your inquisitiveness towards dyeing.

I'm only communicating my experiences. In particular, the basic how-tos of dyeing thread for hand weaving has remained the same. However, I do think about special dyeing methods, such as twist dyeing, blur dyeing, and douse dyeing.

-It is said that people tend to get stubborn as they get older, and I think it may be difficult to hear and take in ideas from us and the younger generation, but you have always been flexible and accepting, and have given us suggestions on how to proceed.

That's because I want people to have fun dyeing. Failure in dyeing is inevitable. If the color doesn't match, you can re-dye them or change the color scheme. Sometimes uneven dyeing can result in an interesting fabric. Dyeing isn't a job to be stubborn about. It's only dyeing, but it is still dyeing. However, I do want people to handle the yarn carefully. If the thread isn't damaged or tangled, things will work out.

-Do you have instances where you think dyeing is interesting, even now?

Rather than dyeing myself, I like seeing the people I teach get better at color matching.

-What has been important to you, for teaching at the school?

I try to teach the students so they will be able to dye by themselves, with the facilities they have at home. Rather than just dyeing, there are various steps before that, so I work with the intention to teach each and every trick. There are many little tips on how to handle threads, such as how to twist threads, how to put the skein down somewhere, and how to put the skein in the spin dryer.

-There are some things that students don't get right away, since they are busy keeping up with the dyeing process during class. As a student, I also wrote down what you taught us and reread it later. When I work by myself, I realize that each detail is important.

While students are here, I can help them with their dyeing, but after graduating, I want them to be able to dye by themselves. Beyond dyeing itself, giving students advice on the work process before and after dyeing is also an important job of mine. I think this is something that I can teach because of what I know. Another is to have data samples. I want people who are going to start dyeing seriously to first make data samples. I hope that this spreads not only among the students here, but also among other hand weavers.

Hori Sensei in the Kawashima Textile School Dyeing Room, early 90s

◆ Sample data making is an asset to the school

-Preparing data.

When I first came to the school, there was only kanzome (intuitive dyeing), so first I prepared the data. Teaching the basics of dyeing is important, but to dye on one's own, having data samples is important. With synthetic dyeing, you have to mix dyestuff to create the color you want. With natural dyeing, color matching is unnecessary, and if you learn the basics, you would get a decent result, so people who are starting to dye use plants. However, natural dyeing has its limits of color, so there are many people who take the synthetic dyeing workshop to make data samples.

*kanzome: The technique of adding dyestuff (the three basic colors, yellow, red, and blue) intuitively without data.

-So the school's data samples were made after you came.

The data sample class is an asset to the school. I want non-students to start from owning self-made data samples. However, just having the data is still not enough. There is an infinite number of colors, so if you can't find the color you want, you need to adjust the data. When you don't know how to change the data, you need to have kanzome skills. So at the school, we recommend learning how to make data samples and kanzome as a set. Currently, we have about 120-130 colors for each type of yarn at the school.

-I heard that you were called a magician of dyeing among the students.

During class, a student who wanted to dye thread in a green color accidentally dyed it pink, and was trying to dye new thread. So instead of using new thread, I added a dye over the pink, and instantly changed it into the green color desired by them, and the students who saw it said, "Sensei, you're like a magician."

-In the workshops, you teach and use time to the fullest. Why is that?

Students of the workshop participate only for that purpose, so everyone is focused, and there are many people who have taken the time and effort to come from afar, so my hope is that they can go home with as much as possible. Thinking about work arrangements within a limited time frame is also a learning process, and I think that way, students will get a greater sense of fulfillment afterwards. This can only be done because the students themselves come here with a strong desire to learn. The classes in the Professional Course are spaced out during the school year, so I try not to squeeze too much into each class, and the international students have different customs, so proper breaks are necessary.

-So for you, teaching is your second career.

I didn't come here thinking of building a second career. I didn't expect to work until this age (81) (laughs). I'm grateful for that. The feeling of gladness that I have continued this work in dyeing comes to me every time. I didn't like dyeing when I first joined the company, but I am here now as a result of patience. I'm glad I didn't quit back then.


Continued to part 3 (Sep. 29, 2020)

An Interview with Dyeing Teacher Masaru Hori 1/3

At Kawashima Textile School, a skilled dyeing professional teaches as a full-time instructor. Masaru Hori (81). After working for 42 years at the Dyeing Department of Kawashima Textile Manufacturers Ltd. (now Kawashima Selkon Textile Co., Ltd.) and retiring, he was assigned to Kawashima Textile School, and has been teaching the basics of dyeing, natural and synthetic dyeing, datamaking, kanzome (intuitive dyeing) for over 20 years. We interviewed Mr. Hori, who is popular amongst students from Japan and abroad for his high professionalism and gentle personality. The interviewer is another full-time instructor who is also a graduate, Hirokazu Kondo.

We will be looking back on his work with dyeing in 3 parts. In part 1 we introduce stories about his first encounter with dyeing, basic movements of thread dyeing and tips on adjusting color, and about working on the interior fabrics of facilities related to the Imperial Palace.



◆ The ultimate of dyeing with your intuition is when the thread calls to you

-Please tell us about how you started to work in dyeing.

After graduating from high school, I was employed at Kawashima Textile Manufacturers Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as “Kawashima Textile”), and was assigned to the Dyeing Department. My high school was a technical school, and of the three departments of Chemistry, Machinery, and Textile, I chose Chemistry, since in those days (1950s), it was difficult to get a job, and my parents told me that it would be easier that way. After joining the company I was assigned to the Dyeing Department of Arts and Crafts Weaving, and at the beginning I didn't like it very much, and was unhappy for the first 1-2 years. My parents often told me "Ishi no ue ni san nen (three years on a cold stone will make the stone warm)" and to do my best. But now I am glad I was assigned to the Dyeing Department, since I am here today thanks to focusing on dyeing until retirement.

-Did you start dyeing by hand without any experience?

Yes. In those days, we didn't have dyeing machines, so everything was dyed by hand. We worked in pairs and dyed 10-20 kilograms of thread every day. We, the newcomers, were called "Aibou (partner)" and did subordinate work such as setting the threads on the dyeing rods, and rinsing and wringing out the threads afterwards, for about 2 years. It was very hard work, especially in the summer, handling heavy wet threads in the heat from the steam.

-Did you learn the work by watching?

Rather than learning by watching, first I acquired the basic movements of dyeing. We were taught a lot about how to handle the thread, not just dyeing, such as how to move the thread or rotate it in the dyebath when dyeing, how to wash it, how to hang or wring it out. Learning the process of color matching would be much later.

-That is a necessary process, isn't it, since the weaving process comes after dyeing, it would affect that step if the threads are in disorder. How did you move on to dyeing?

Because of the aging staff and the increase in the workload, I was able to gradually work on color matching. Dyeing is to first do color matching. Color matching is difficult, even for professionals, and you are taught a certain amount, but to improve your skills, your ability and intuition is important.

-Is there anything you kept in mind, to work on your intuition？

The most important thing is to dye a lot. You won't get better at color matching by being taught. You quickly forget things you are taught. We add the dyestuff intuitively, but there is an infinite amount of colours in the world, so it would take 3-4 years or more to be able to dye them. The ultimate of dyeing with your intuition, is when you look at the thread when dyeing, and the thread calls to you how much of what dyestuff it needs. When looking at a color, which dyestuff you need at what ratio will run in your mind, without actually having to dye it. Back then, I would think about that in my daily life, like on walks, when I encountered a rare color.

Kawashima Textile Manufacturers Ltd. Dyeing Factory in 1958.
19-year-old Hori Sensei is in the front row, second from the right.

◆ Bringing out the full potential of the dyestuff

-What kind of work did you do after you started working in the dyeing process?

Theater curtains, float curtains*, obi and restoration work of cultural assets. Dyeing might be fun as a hobby, but that's not the case when it's a job. There is a deadline, and the responsibility for the quality when it becomes a product, and sometimes complaints about discoloration. Of course, it could be the ability of the dyestuff used, but also that the dyeing method was not good, either. I've always tried to dye in a way that brings out the full potential of the dyestuff.

*Curtains decorating the floats in festivals, such as the Gion Festival.

-Looking back on the 42 years at Kawashima Textile, was there something that you worked on that you really enjoyed?

Besides the daily work, I sometimes felt glad to have been dyeing when working on special orders. Although they were just short moments in my long dyeing career.

Back then, I was involved in many projects for the Imperial Household Agency, such as the interior (curtains, upholstery, etc.) and the jacquard velvet wall covering during the construction of the Akasaka Guest House. A memorable project among them all was the Seiden-Matsu-no-Ma (State Room) of the Imperial Palace, where the enthronement ceremony (October 22, 2019) was held. Behind the Emperor's throne, there is a large screen with a pattern of pine called Daiomatsu woven with golden thread on a purple ground. I dyed the thread for that, starting from the proposal of colors. There are a variety of purples, but that color is so noble, it is called Imperial Purple. I had many meetings with the person in charge of the design, and test dyed several times. I was very happy when I was finally told, "this color is good." I remember that work when I see the state room on TV. When the screen is shown on official events broadcast on TV, I would like for everyone to look at the shade of Imperial Purple.

There was also some work with the Fujinoki Tomb near Hōryū-ji in Nara. A stone coffin was found as a result of the excavation. I participated in a project to restore the fabric worn by the person buried in it. Since I was busy with my daily work, I wasn't that interested in the history of dyeing and ancient dyeing until then, but I took that opportunity to read references and study.


Continued to part 2 (Sep. 23, 2020)

A Look Into Our Classes 3 "Design Exercise II"

There are various people who teach in Kawashima Textile School’s Professional Course. In addition to the full time teachers, we invite artists, designers, and technical experts as guest teachers and lecturers from outside the school, to create an open, positive atmosphere. In this series we will introduce you to some of the classes held in the Professional Course.



Design Enshū II (Design Exercise II) by weaving sculptor Toko Hayashi is being held from summer to autumn. The steps of students creating a piece with a theme, then showing it in a group critique, is repeated. The purpose of this class is for students to explore the appeal of a material by themselves through working on assignments. The group critique for the second assignment was held on August 27.

"With this material, I can make good use of the drape." "When I touched this fabric, I felt it was similar to the softness of a baby." Drawing inspiration and imagining from texture, the pieces were created through trial and error, layering fabric, gathering fabric, using thread for movement, and so on. After displaying the work on the wall, one by one, the students talked about their process. The critique is to train students to have their work be seen by others, and to explain them in their own words. This second time is based on what students noticed in their first. Each individual's strengths and weaknesses show through the process of shaping an image, and advice towards one student spreads among the others who are listening, as something new to notice.

Toko Hayashi says, "Sometimes there are moments when I encounter an unexpected sense as I touch a material. Feeling that nuance, and deepening that sense leads to creating. It can be used even if the technique changes, and I hope this class becomes a breakthrough for the students." The time for the students to face themselves while observing textures, continues.


-What does weaving mean to you?
"A connection of time"

Textiles I encountered in Indonesia, where I spent my childhood. On the island, time would flow slowly, and people were chatting while weaving on a backstrap loom, and I saw the weaving techniques that have remained unchanged since ancient times blended into people's lives. That became a formative experience, and for me, "weaving and time" is one. When I am weaving, sometimes I feel like I am weaving density. By combining the warp and weft, I am weaving in time that has continued from long ago. To me, weaving is something that I can express the connection of time with.


About Toko Hayashi
Toko Hayashi mainly creates tapestries, small sculptures, and accessories using the sakiori technique. Her recent exhibitions include "15th International Triennial of Tapestry, Lodz" 2016, Central Museum of Textiles, Lodz, Poland (Honorable mention), "Kyoto Textiles: From the 1960s to the Present" 2019, The National Museum of Modern Art, Kyoto, Japan, and other solo and group exhibitions. Toko Hayashi has graduated from Seian College of Art and Design. She is a part time lecturer in the Spatial Design Department of Seian University of Arts and Design.

Student Voice (1st Year Students) 3

We will be introducing voices from students who have just entered the 1st year of the Professional Course in April 2020. Three students talked about why they entered the school, their thoughts about weaving, and how they feel after spending 4 months at the school. This is a three-part series.

“Discovering what I like, through weaving” Hanako Kimura

I majored in Textiles at an art high school. When I told my teacher that after graduating, I wanted to study weaving starting from the basics, he introduced me to Kawashima Textile School.

When I visited the school, I saw the students' work exhibited in the building, and was moved by the thought of being able to make things like them. The international students looked like they were having fun weaving, and I was drawn to the warm atmosphere of the school, where students could interact with each other.

I am very interested in traditional handwork. This could be because my father is a carpenter, but I love to make things. When I finished weaving an 8 meter cloth in class, I had a sense of accomplishment, and when I started to get the hang of weaving, I was motivated to weave more. I like weaving plain weave which is a constant repetition, with fine thread, while keeping the width in order. I am discovering what I like, through weaving.

To be honest, before entering the school, I had a perception that I wasn’t good at weaving. I did experience weaving in high school, but back then I was weaving without really understanding it. Now when I am taking the Tapestry Weaving class, my questions can be answered and solved quickly by asking my teacher. I enjoy weaving now, since we are taught techniques very specifically, and can continue on as we understand each step. Day after day, I notice the desire for creating growing inside me, every time I weave. The things I am able to do are gradually increasing, so I look forward to creating from now on.

A Look Into Our Classes 2 "Design Exercise I"

There are various people who teach in Kawashima Textile School’s Professional Course. In addition to the full time teachers, we invite artists, designers, and technical experts as guest teachers and lecturers from outside the school, to create an open, positive atmosphere. In this series we will introduce you to some of the classes held in the Professional Course.

Day 5: Design

The Design Enshū (Design Exercise) class was held over the course of 5 days, starting in April. By Dessan* (drawing from life), students were able to spend time observing and interacting with their subjects, such as fruits and vegetables. On the last day, students designed their free project for the Tapestry Weaving class.

In everyday life, there are a surprising number of objects that we think we know and understand. Usually we don't have many opportunities to observe fruits and vegetables, and most of the time we only look at them for a few seconds to check if they are in good condition. I think that spending hours looking at, touching, and imagining about an object, discovering new sides of them, and feeling the sense of how we perceive objects change, will become valuable experiences for creating things. By training the observational eye, inspiration can be drawn from anywhere, and the time and effort spent observing and interacting with the subject will appear in a design. Most importantly, everything becomes more exciting, as things such as what you see in everyday life will change.

For the tapestry designs, I asked students to draw their designs from what they found interesting about their subjects, and also imagine where they would be hung. By June, students had already started weaving samples in tapestry class, so the designs were drawn with consideration of what kind of thread and techniques were going to be used.

I hope the new experiences and viewpoints will be a foundation for the students' future work.

*The word Dessan is borrowed from French "Dessin," and in Japan means drawing from life in pencil, usually for 3-5 hours.


-What does weaving mean to me?
"Lenses"

I feel that the sense of weaving that I have learned by making, and my job at the school, is always naturally at work. I have noticed that I unconsciously see things through the lenses of weaving, such as arrow shaped road markings as kasuri (ikat) patterns, or weaving tools as units of measurement.
At the same time, I think about what my role can be in the long history of weaving.

(text: Emma Omote)


About Emma Omote
Instagram: @emma.omote
After graduating with a BA in Fine Arts (Painting) from Kyoto Seika University, Emma Omote completed the 2 year course at Kawashima Textile School, majoring in Kimono. She continues to weave Kimono and has taught students from Japan and overseas at Kawashima Textile School since 2009.